We had the pleasure of interviewing Larry Stone, MS (Rubicon Estate), Russ Weis (Silverado Vineyards), and Maryanne Wedner (Grgich Hills Estate) on May 21, 2010. We had lunch at Bamboo Grassy, a popular Teppanyaki restaurant in Ebisu, Tokyo, and we paired one wine from each of their wineries with Okonomiyaki. Many thanks to Chef/Owner Asao Naganuma, as he was kind enough to create for us three original Okonomiyaki dishes that matched perfectly with each of the wines.

Yoshi Takemura (iwine.jp) : The first Okonomiyaki is about to get plated. Chef, can you explain to us what the first dish is?

Yoshi : Now, THIS, I've not seen. (talking about the second okonomiyaki)

Russ : We're on a different planet, it seems.

Maryanne : It looks just beautiful!

Russ : Oh wow!

Maryanne : This is the dish to go with Pinot Noir, right?

Russ : The amount of cheese he put in this dish, I know it's going to be great, already. I love the mayonnaise on top, as well.

Yoshi : Mayonnaise seems to make the dish taste milder, right?

Russ : Absolutely. Smell that!!!

Maryanne : What type of cheese did you use?

Chef Naganuma : A mix of natural cheeses, both soft and hard.

Maryanne : Wow, this dish works beautifully with the Pinot Noir!!

Russ : Yes. it's incredible, I think what larry was talking about with the style of Pinot Noir is important. I have to confess, initially I though there is a little danger with the tomatoes and the Pinot Noir. But this is a great high-acid Pinot Noir that totally works. It has enough weight to stand up the richness of the dish, as well. Fantastic paring, chef. I will say, I'm extremely fond of the Grgich Hills Chardonnay. To me, tomatoes and Chardonnay is a combination that works. I don't know why, but I've always liked it. They work well together.

Yoshi : Any thoughts Maryanne?

Maryanne : I think the dish very much changed the characteristics of the Pinot Noir, in a good way. The food brings out a little more of the fruit of the Pinot Noir. I'm getting a lot more of the strawberry finish. And the wine has come to life. It's a great combination.

Yoshi : Larry, are you okay with the pairing?

Larry : I'm also very impressed with the combination. Like Maryanne said, it bring out the fruitiness of the wine. And with pork, cheese, tomatoes, and other nuances of the dish, the wine seems to bring out the flavors of those, as well. The wine brings out the flavors of the dish, and vice versa.

All : Chef, great job!!!

Yoshi : It has that ketchup-y feel to it, but unmistakably Okonomiyaki.

Russ : I agree. fascinating!!! Definitely in the genre.

Maryanne : If you go back to the Chardonnay, it's not bad with it, but it's not great.

Russ : I think the acid in the dish actually makes the wine feel sweeter. Really lovely.

Maryanne : I'm curious, what's the temperature of the griddle?

Chef Naganuma : Around 200c (400 F).

Yoshi : Chef, can you please explain to us the last Okonomiyaki?

Chef Naganuma : I have to kinds, both using the same ingredients but finished differently. One will have a beautiful decoration on top.

Yoshi : Are there any Okonomiyaki restaurants in Nap Valley or San Francico?

All : Not in Napa!

Russ : I've never seen anything in San Francisco, either.

Larry : Me neither.

Larry : Maybe in Los Angeles. Los Angeles has a bigger Japanese population.

Michael : How about in New York?

Yoshi : I can't think of any, actually. Do you think a restaurant like this would do well in California?

Maryanne : Oh, absolutely, in Napa! How about in Calistoga?

Russ : You mean right behind my house?

Larry : Napa Valley may be a bit conservative, I think.

Maryanne : Now, what do we have now?

Russ : That's staring to look like Okonomiyaki

Maryanne : Wow that is so beautiful.

Russ : This is more classical Okonomiyaki.

Larry : This would work with a Cabernet because of the saltiness of the sauce.

Yoshi : What's missing in Japan is the fundamental idea of pairing beverages with food. Japanese people enjoy fine cuisine and fine wine, but they are not trained to enjoy them together. We go to an Okonomiyaki-place and what do we drink?

Maryanne : A beer!

Yoshi : Yes, a beer. And we drink sake, shochu, and anything that we are familiar with. But we don't "pair" them together with food, per se.

Larry : Well, with this Okonomiyaki, wine goes better with it than sake.

Russ : Same can be said for beer, I think. Wine is better with it. There is a bitterness to beer that I'm not quite sure would work here.

Yoshi : I was telling Larry yesterday that the Japanese Sommelier Association should spend more time educating the Japanese people on food and wine pairings.

All : Makes sense!

Maryanne : I love the bonito flakes, look at that! Work of art!

Larry : This is a GREAT pairing. The Cabernet and this preparation of Okonomiyaki; saltiness makes the wine smooth and round.

Maryanne : I was so taken back by how good it was. I forgot to comment on the pairing!

Maryanne : The last one looks gorgeous, too! It's like a painting. Fabulous with the Cabernet!

Yoshi : Russ, are you ok with the pairing of your Cabernet with this Okonomiyaki?

Russ : Oh my god! The sauce is one of those key things to Okonomiyaki and it adds smokiness and fruitiness to the dish. The majority of the fruit that goes into this wine comes from Stags Leap district, and the wine has that deep plummy-ness.

Russ : With this combination of food and wine, there is a slight saltiness with the wine, and the plummy-ness that matches with the sauce. The dish is just so rich, that I think the tannins help cut through that.

Maryanne : The Silvered Cabernet Sauvignon is just fantastic, I think. Larry is too busy eating. (laugh)

Yoshi : Whoever said that seafood and red wine don't go together, right?

Maryanne : Right.

Russ : Right.

Maryanne : Noodles and red wine, too!

Larry : Actually the reason why I wasn't talking was because I went back to all three wines and the Chardonnay actually goes very well with the last Okonomiyaki, especially now that it's warmer.

Russ : You're right, as it warms up more wood is apparent, and that works as well.

Larry : You could have this Okonomiyaki with any big red wine. The nice thing about the Silveredo Cabernet Sauvignon is that it has nice light tannins and has a beautiful balance with moderate acidity. For a Cabernet Sauvignon it is relatively fresh and light.

Michael : This may be better with this dish than the Silverado Solo?

Russ : Regarding our Silvered Solo, because grapes come only from Stags Leap, it doesn't necessarily have a "tannic" structure. The more rustic tannin structure we get from vineyards in Coombsville match up to the sauce a little bit better. In any case, I think you're right, Larry, in that since Silverado is in the southern eastern region of the valley, it's a little different fruit quality. And I think that weight is about right for this cuisine. Something heavier may not have worked as well.

Yoshi : Hypothetically speaking, if we had picked the same varietals from, say, France, would the food and wine paring have worked as well?

Maryanne : Wouldn't have worked (笑), only California wine works well with Japanese cuisine.

Russ : (笑)

Larry : (笑) I think you should be adventurous. All the people who love Japanese food know that there is a wide range of food. So there is a wide range of wines that will match that food. You have to experiment and decide what you like. What could be better than people to reproduce this in their own homes, or when they go out next time and have a range of wines, sit down with a dish, and try different wines with each dish. Then they think about why they like the combination. Pretty soon, they'll learn about everything they need to know about food and wine pairing.

Maryanne : I think that's a great idea. To do something like this with a flight of wines, and be able to go through with each course and taste the different wines. How much fun that would be!

Russ : I'm fascinated with what I call the false dichotomy of old world vs. new world. For me, as a winemaker, it's more about how you make the wine. It's a prejudice of mine because of the way I make wine not only in Napa Valley but also in Spain. But there is an old world within the old world and there is a new world within the old world. AND there is a old world within the new world, as well. This is one of the things I love about the Votre Sante Pinot Noir. I've had some Sonoma Coast Pinot Noir that was going though secondary fermentation in the bottle because they were making wine in the "old world style." The point is, do you have a clarity of purpose about what you are crafting, and a clarity of fruit expression and clarity of terroir expression? If you're going to get the cellar in the way of that, I don't care where you are in the world, it's not going to be as great with this type of cuisine. So for me, absolutely, great wines of France would go great with this but the purity of fruit is the most important thing to pair with this type of cuisine. Having said that I have a totally double-standard with other kinds of cuisine where it's not so bad to drink a wine that is not "cleanly made." But Japanese cuisine is not the kind of cuisine to pair with that type of wine. It's really how you're crafting the wine, not the region where the wine comes from. It's tricky but it really depends more on the craftsmanship of the winery and less on where the wine comes from.

Yoshi : I think blind tastings are difficult for that reason, right?

Russ : Yup

Maryanne : I think our wines are in that old world style. Mike is European, and his concept of making wine is that you sit dow for a meal with your family and friends and drink your wine with your meal. We don't go for the blockbuster 98 point wine that stand alone. We want the wine to be enjoyed with food. In that sense, I think mike and his wines are "old world." Now I have a question. Do they have wine here at Bamboo Grassy?

Michael: Do people here order wine specifically to pair with Japanese cuisine?

Chef Naganuma : Yes, however, because Okonomiyaki is typically best with full-bodied wines, our wine list tends be "in that style."

Michael : Will the Okonomiyaki you made for us today be on the menu soon?

Chef Naganuma : Yes, they will be. Especially because I know now that they go well with wine!

Maryanne : What did the chef think of the parings today?

Chef Naganuma : To be honest, I was pleasantly surprised. I was doubtful that all of the wines will pair well with wine, but I was wrong. I learned a lot today.

Maryanne : Just applause.

Yoshi : Everyone, thank you very much.

Wines Mentioned in this Interview

• 
  
  2007 Grgich Hills Chardonnay Napa Valley

  ￥6,800
  Add to Cart
• 
  
  2007 Francis Coppola, Votre Sante, Pinot Noir

  ￥3,995
  Add to Cart
• 
  
  2006 Silverado, Cabernet Sauvignon, Napa Valley

  ￥4,980
  Add to Cart

• 
  
  2008 Francis Coppola, Director’s Cut, Chardonnay

  ￥3,010
  Add to Cart
• 
  
  2007 Grgich Hills Fume Blanc Estate Grown Napa Valley

  ￥4,995
  Add to Cart
• 
  
  2006 Rubicon Estate Cask Cabernet

  ￥9,240
  Add to Cart