Winemaker Interview Volume 1 @ Bamboo Grassy Part 1

We had the pleasure of interviewing Larry Stone, MS (Rubicon Estate), Russ Weis (Silverado Vineyards), and Maryanne Wedner (Grgich Hills Estate) on May 21, 2010. We had lunch at Bamboo Grassy, a popular Teppanyaki restaurant in Ebisu, Tokyo, and we paired one wine from each of their wineries with Okonomiyaki. Many thanks to Chef/Owner Asao Naganuma, as he was kind enough to create for us three original Okonomiyaki dishes that matched perfectly with each of the wines.

General Manger of Rubicon Estate in Napa Valley, Larry became the first American to wine the title of International Best Sommelier in French Wines and Spirits in Paris and remains the only American to have earned the title of Maitre Sommelier from the Union de la Sommelerie Francaise.He is also an English-certified Master Sommelier, one of a handful who has passed the examination on the first attempt.

Maryanne has been with Grgich Hills Esate for over 30 years. She is the assistant to the President of the winery, and serves as the Export Manager and California Sales Manager.

Russ spent over a decade with the Robert Mondavi Winery as the Director or Public Relations and Senior Vice President for International Business Development before joining Silverado Vineyards in 2004. He is also involved in a personal wine project with partnerrs in Spain's Priorat region.

Chef/Owner of Bamboo Grassy. Born in Kyoto and raised in Tokyo, he studied his Teppanyaki techniques at Chibou, and Chanto. He opened Bamboo Grassy at the age 34, and he is an avid fan of the Yomiuri Giants.

Yoshi Takemura (iwine.jp) : Chef Naganuma, can you explain to us briefly the history of Okonomiyaki?

Chef Naganuma : Okonomiyaki is a popular smack-type food, especially popular in Osaka, Japan. It's very similar to, say, a slice of pizza in the US. Okonomiyaki is said to have originated in the Edo-Period. It is believed that Sen-no-Rikyu, a historical figure with the most profound influence on the Japanese tradition of the enjoyment of tea. The style of okonomiyaki then was something completely different from what we are accustomed to now. They enjoyed eating Okonomiyaki with an afternoon tea. These days there are Osaka-Style, Tokyo-Style, Hiroshima-Style, and then the "Bamboo Grassy" Style.

Yoshi : Chef Naganuma has created for us three original and unique Okonomiyaki to pair with each wine we are having today.

Yoshi : Chef, how do you feel about the paring of Okonomiyaki and wine in general?

Chef Naganuma : I think it's VERY difficult. Having said that, I think great food and great wine always pair well together, so I'm not worried about the parings today.

Michael Khoo (iwine.jp) : I've always been curious about paring wines with traditional Japanese cuisine, so I'm very excited.

Yoshi : Why do you think Okonomiyaki and wine are difficult to pair together?

Chef Naganuma : Well, it's mainly because of the sauce. In many cases, the sauce tends to overpower the wine.

Russ : Yes, the sauce is definitely sweet and sour

Yoshi : Larry, what do you think about Okonomiyaki sauce and wine?

Larry : I think you need a wine that is sweet and sour as well, dry German rieslings, anyone?

Russ : We're in for a challenge.　Despite the sweet and sour nature of the sauce, I find that other ingredients in Okonomiyaki make the dish savory. So there is a savory-ness that you can always pair with wine.

Yoshi : Larry, how do you feel about pairing Japanese food and wine, in general?

Larry : Depends. Japanese food is so varied that Yakitori, for example is easy. Any red wine or white wine with grilled food is easy. Japanese cuisines is a diverse cuisine, so you have to look at each ingredient carefully.

Maryanne : Every sushi and sashimi has a different texture and flavor, as well.

Michael : At the Ritz-Carlton Tokyo last night, we had sushi and sashimi with white wine; and Teppanyaki with red.

Russ : That's right. With Teppanyaki, matching is pretty easy. With sushi, a bit more tricky. However, with Grgich Chardonnay, it worked well last night. Given the purity of fruit expression of Maryanne's wine, it was easy to pair with sushi and sashimi. If the wine was a little more muddled, then pairing with sushi would have been a challenge.

Yoshi : Perhaps soy sauce is what makes pairing with sushi and sashimi difficult?

Russ : That brings up a conversion about salt, because it changes the perception of wine altogether.

Larry : Salt can actually soften a tannic red wine. If you have a wine that is balanced already, salt can make the wine flabby. Actually, for this reason, a lot of dish that has high salt content can be good with red wine.

Russ : Yes, young and robust red with salty food can be really good.

Larry : Salty food and delicate Pinot Noir or Merlot can be a challenge.

Yoshi : We're in for a ride, today, I guess.

Larry : That's why we brought these wines!

Russ : Normally, in the United States, we're accustomed to Okonomiyaki where they just mix up batter and put something in it or on top of it, and just steam it up. Here at Bamboo Grassy everything is on a different level, it seems. It's a joy to watch the chef put this together in front of us.

Yoshi : Maryanne, do you have a favorite food and wine pairing with wines in your portfolio?

Maryanne : Usually the Fume Blancor the Chardonnay with any kind of seafood, cevice, or chicken. Because neither of the wines go through Malolactic Fermentation, they both have a lot of acid. So they tend to go well with fresh, vibrant flavors in dishes, as well.

Yoshi : How about you, Russ?

Russ : I'd have to agree. Our Sauvignon Blanc doesn't have a tremendous amount of weight, so it's probably better with lighter dishes. When you get into Toro (fatty tuna) or heavier seafood, Maryanne's Chardonnay is a better match because it has a bit more body and it can stand up to the richness of the fish. I like our Sauvignon Blanc with all kinds of delicate fish dishes. Like the chef said earlier, we put a lot of premium on matching wine and food together, and yes, it's so glorious when pairing works perfectly. But often wine is like a sorbet, it clears your palate, and gets your juices going again. It can act as a palate cleanser. For an average consumer, if you take that approach, food and wine paring is a little less intimidating. Having said that, I'm a huge fan of winter dishes, like tendon. So a hearty wine like Cabernet Sauvignon would be just perfect with that. Cabernet after skiing is just so delicious.

Yoshi : Russ, you seems so familiar with Japanese dishes and cuisine, do you come here often?

Russ : I do. Actually, I used to live here. I'm a huge fan of Otafuku Okonomiyaki sauce, so whenever I'm in town, I buy a case of it to go home with. One thing i've been curious about is noodles. I've never found the right wine with the right weight to go with noodles. And one thing I've forgotten about it that Hiroshima-style Okonomiyaki has noodles in them. Weight of the starch is something interesting to consider when pairing wines. What do you all think?

Larry : I think it depends on how you have it, hot or cold, depending on who is making it, how much bonito flavors are in it, and so forth. So I have no trouble eating soba with wide variety of red wine. I usually prefer red wine with soba, because of the bonito, and the salt content, you can drink a young, heavy cabernet. For example, I drink a lot of Cask Cabernet with soba, because that saltiness works very well with soba, brings out the fruitiness of the wine and makes the wine very soft and enjoyable. I would serve the red slightly chilled and cooler than usual. I usually pay attention to the temperature of the wine, and adjust based on what I'm eating. Also the environment, on a hot day, I would like my wine chilled a little bit. On a warm day, not really. If we're talking about tuna or toro, we often talk about drinking a heavy white. But i feel that tuna or toro can be appropriate with heavy reds as well, because they are so fatty and rich. So for example, if you have a Tataki-style dish, where it's grilled on the outside and raw on the inside, a Cabernet Sauvignon would be just perfect with that. But in any cuisine, paring depends on the chef, how the chef is seasoning it, what sauce is used, what the balance of seasoning is, how sour and how sweet the dish is… all these things can change what wine go best with it. Thing to remember is, you can make it very complicated, get into the science of food and wine pairing, but when you go to eat, what to drink with a dish is a choice you make. For example, when eat hot dogs with ketchup and sweet pickle relish, you're probably drinking coca cola with it. If you put mustard on it you're probably drinking a beer!

Maryanne : Beer!

Russ : Beer! That's right.

Larry : Anybody can understand that. So in japan, if you're eating a certain kind of dish, say, a Japanese dish that doesn't have sweetness, a little bitter, and sour, then pair with dry white wines. If a dish is sweet, then you're talking about wines that has fruit, and rich. Food and wine pairing is intuitive. For example the Okonomiyaki that is being cooked in front of us, I want something that has a lot of flavor and freshness.

Yoshi : So I guess Larry is happy to use the Cask Cabernet as a dipping sauce for soba noodles!?

Maryanne : In that case, please don't forget about our Zinfandel to dip your soba noodles in!!!